Mormons in the Capitol
My guest and I also toured the
The tour started pretty standard but eventually the language of our tour guide really started to bother me. For instance he was very proud that
I was also surprised to find that all 435 members of the house were men. Well let me clarify that statement our tour guide constantly said “All 435 congressmen have offices….” Or “All 435 congressmen have student interns….” I was surprised to find such un-pc language and incorrect language (there are actually 63 female representatives and 14 female senators) from an actual staff member of a representative, but then again he was from
The other thing that was really annoying about our group was the number of children under the age of 10 outnumbered the people over 10 in our group. The sheer number of children in our group made our progress through the capital building slow and haphazard. But hey they were from
posted by Spin_Doc1 at
9:43 AM
25 Comments:
I guess with all the little kids there the guide didn't want to mention how all 435 men are also polygamists. That was decent of him.
By
Anonymous, at 10:13 AM
Anonymous, The guide mentioned enough to leave no doubt that all the non-Mormons were destined to outer darkness.
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Spin_Doc1, at 10:19 AM
I'm old enough to have watched the construction of the National Temple in Kensington and could see the golden angel from my neigborhood. I was really dissapointed later as a teenager when finding that I couldn't enter to see the all the other gold as it is my favorite of the noble elements.
Getting stoned in their gardens at night was fun though.
I have 2 Jehovah's Witnesses at my door right now and there are 2 sweaty cleancut young guys on bicycles coming up the street too...gotta go hide for awhile.
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Anonymous, at 11:51 AM
giggle
I don't have anything against them but I hate having them come to my door to convert me. I just tell them I'm Catholic and that usually sends them on their way. Given our close proximity to Utah here in the 4 corners region they outnumber other religious persuasions.
You should have kicked that tour guide's butt.
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i used to be me, at 12:04 PM
Anonymous - All you need is a bottle of beer and just sit back and watch the show.
Genius - To receive religious tolerance you need to grant religious tolerance, the Mormons seem to have missed this concept.
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Spin_Doc1, at 12:22 PM
"I was also surprised to find that all 435 members of the house were men"
We should be so lucky.
In addition, I don't think political incorrectness has anything to do with it at all. There's certainly no concensus among linguists as to the proper gender-neutral terminology for a member of Congress. "Congressmen" is an acceptable gender neutral phrase for multiple Congressmen and Congresswomen just as "mankind" is accepted and gender neutral.
Personally, I'd be more curious as to the thought process of anyone who even made note of the reference.
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Smerdyakov, at 12:59 PM
AC - Mankind is not gender neutral, it completely disregards the female half of humanity. Congressman is not gender neutral either, try congressional leader or representative.
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Spin_Doc1, at 1:34 PM
It disregards half of humanity only if you're so caught up in gender politics that everything has to be spelled out for you.
"Congressional leaders" can be be specific member withing the congressional caucus. A "congressional representative" may mean an aide.
If I said "435 Congressmen", everybody in the room would know what i was talking about (with the possible exception of you).
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Smerdyakov, at 1:50 PM
AC - I suppose if you enjoy the advantages of being in the majority group, it’s easy to judge who’s “caught up” in gender politics. Maybe when women enjoy the same freedom as men in our society, a word that seems neutral to you and your linguists will seem neutral to those of us who care.
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Theresa, at 2:22 PM
Ummm, actually you and Spin are the ones in the majority, but that's neither here nor there.
However, when some people learn that the burdens society place in from of us are insignificant compared to the ones we place in front of ourselves, we can all stop debating over what little words mean.
And although I'm sure you know the lyric, I'll share it anyhow -
"Thow he only taught us 3 little words
it doesn't matter if they're dirty or clean
He can only control what they look like
He can never possess what they mean"
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Smerdyakov, at 2:36 PM
thow = though
women are better spellers than men too.
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Smerdyakov, at 2:43 PM
When I used the term "majority" I mean it in terms of macro distribution of power and wealth in society, not mere numbers. Apartheid alone should teach us that majority and power are not the same thing.
Did you just tell us to pick ourselves up by our bootstraps? Gotta love those easy answers to complex problems.
Three words? KISS MY ____
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Theresa, at 3:34 PM
Well, if history has thought us anything...
ooops... wait a minute...
history?
His-story? OK bad joke, I'm outta here.
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Ze Matman, at 3:47 PM
Jean-Marc, you are not helping!
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Spin_Doc1, at 3:49 PM
I would like to make several comments in regards to the blog and the comments it started. First the writer of the blog is extremely sensitive to religious indoctrination and most people would find her experience in the white house both shocking and amusing and mildly offensive instead of extremely offensive. Nobody really cares what a cult, trying to establish itself as a religion does or doesn’t say when they are not from the Utah area. That sentence should immediately give away my bias on the subject. So a person not familiar with Utahans and Mormons would be shocked at how religious the conversation was and amused by the novelty.
Now for the interesting topic - sexism.
As a working professional I often find myself confused over the appropriate way to word things. I have seen several studies that demonstrate that the lack of gender neutral terminology or equal rotation of he and she does influence a child’s viewpoint of the world. In the sciences they have found that the inclusion of the term she, in story problems and examples, leads to female students feeling they may participate in the subject. Thankfully many professional fields already have gender neutral terms, doctors, chemists, lawyers, mechanics. Although most people (including woman) envision a male when these terms come up, generically there is hope that it will change. Using a word like congressman does not give that opportunity. The image that will continue to dominate a persons mind is the male congressman. It may be quickly replaced by an individual, but the male image is there. So though a few women are in the congress and they probably do not mind being referred to as congressmen, in fact some may even be proud of it, referring to the group as men does a disservice to the female participants when we picture a large body composed exclusively of men in the legislative branch. This conveys on some level that women do not belong or should not be part of an important ruling body. In this aspect the British have the advantage with their Members of Parliament (MPs), or our senate, with the term senator.
As an aside, when a person hears congressional representative most do not think intern or secretary they picture the states representative. That is a stretch to make a point, almost as bad as saying mankind is equivalent to humankind.
Sadly no one has successfully put forth a gender neutral reference to a person to replace he or she, man or woman...
The Lawyer
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Anonymous, at 3:55 PM
"I have seen several studies that demonstrate that the lack of gender neutral terminology or equal rotation of he and she does influence a child’s viewpoint of the world."
I'd like a cite on that, please. Because every study you can name, I can point out 5 that say the exact opposite.
"Sadly no one has successfully put forth a gender neutral reference to a person to replace he or she, man or woman... "
Actually they have - the singular "they". And it sounds just as ridiculous as "congressional representative".
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Smerdyakov, at 4:49 PM
And re the "mankind thind, here are many quotes referencing "mankind" in a gender neutral manner. As an exercise, why don't you see how many you can find referencing men exclusively?
"Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind."
John F. Kennedy
"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly."
Woody Allen
If mankind minus one were of one opinion, then mankind is no more justified in silencing the one than the one - if he had the power - would be justified in silencing mankind.
John Stuart Mill
Mankind have a great aversion to intellectual labor; but even supposing knowledge to be easily attainable, more people would be content to be ignorant than would take even a little trouble to acquire it.
Samuel Johnson
The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.
Bertrand Russell
The most common of all follies is to believe passionately in the palpably not true. It is the chief occupation of mankind.
HL Mencken
History is indeed little more than the register of the crimes, follies and misfortunes of mankind.
Edward Gibbon
I could go on and on and on.
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Smerdyakov, at 4:57 PM
@ AC:
"Because every study you can name, I can point out 5 that say the exact opposite. "
Please do!
John F. Kennedy, Woody Allen, John Stuart Mill, Samuel Johnson, Bertrand Russell,
HL Mencken, Edward Gibbon, ...
Hmm... What do all these people have in common? Hmm...
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Ellen, at 5:10 PM
Congressperson wouldn't be gender specific. I think they stick to congressman out of tradition or habit but sometimes it's necessary for traditions to change. Not that I think about it all that much. What I did notice in the comments was that it was a man who disagreed that congressman might be construed as a politically incorrect term. I would agree there are times the PC issue is taken too far but it also depends on the perspective of persons involved. I haven't seen many men have to struggle the way women have for equality in the workplace or in the voting booth.
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i used to be me, at 7:30 PM
I wonder what this conversation will sound like when there are 43 women presidents in a row?
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Theresa, at 8:31 PM
43 women presidents in a row and AC barefoot and pregnant.
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i used to be me, at 8:42 PM
There are several women I'd vote for
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Smerdyakov, at 9:18 PM
Oh Smerdy, I am constantly amazed at the lengths to which you go to push people's buttons. Even to pulling out your handy dandy quotes finder.
As for your quotes... Most of the speakers are dead so we can't ask them what they meant... but I can point to a document which uses the term "men" in a general "human" sense... "We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal..." And we all know how inclusive THAT language was.
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Trista, at 9:33 PM
I worked on the Hill for 3 years. I say "congressperson," "congresspeople," or "congressmen and -women", or just "member of Congress," which always works. It is totally possible to get by without lumping the congresswomen in and calling them congressmen, and I'd say that's preferable.
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SVM, at 10:19 PM
...but to get back to the original topic: I just spent 7 hours on a place sitting next to a baptist preacher. I had a whole lot of fun laying out all the details of evolution and big bang theory.
By
Anonymous, at 12:23 PM
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